Fired for "Threatening" Not to Be a Quitter and to Improve
I am a female attorney. Years ago before I became a lawyer I worked for a company that was later taken over by a famous company. They tried to say that I was a criminal. And while what I did could be considered grounds for termination, I'm only guilty of insubordination, not criminality. I got this job while I was in the process of applying to law school. I'd taken my LSATs and was looking into law school class preparation programs, so I guess you can say I had a fall back plan.
I had a boss I will call “Chuck� who wasn't happy with my work, and that's totally legit, but here's the deal. He used to call me in to yell at and scold me every five minutes. I'd be in the office for about a half hour each time. No exaggeration! And when I would apologize to him and promise to do better, he'd just scowl and get nastier. HE EVEN TOLD ME TO MY FACE, "IF KEEPING YOU IN HERE MAKES YOU MESS UP MORE, THAT'S TOUGH FOR YOU." And practically every time he'd finish talking to me and would send me on my way, his final words would be, "Now, I'm not going to waste any more of your time." And he'd tell me in a nasty way that I messed something up and then send me away. And then b/c I felt I might have done the same mistakes on my other work handed to him, I tried to take work back so I would change my mistakes, and he'd snarl, "Once it's on my desk, it's not leaving until I see it." And then, he'd see I made the same mistake on something I did before he spoke to me and he'd call me in again and yell at me for literally 30 minutes. I used to time my sessions. And he'd make me come in on weekends and still yell at me for hours on end.
I don’t think it was just my work. I think the guy really disliked me.
They had an error log where you'd do let's say 10 reports and even if you made 1 mistake, that counted against you even if you made the changes that the editor had told you. Depending on how bad the error was, you could even get docked. So you could correct the errors, but it would still be on record as you having made those errors. This man would correct my mistakes and return it then I'd bring back the report with all the corrections and he'd find something else wrong with it then resume his verbal abuse of me. That was excessive. I would apologize to him and say that I was “concerned.� And he’d answer back sarcastically and say, “You should be concerned. I’m concerned about you.� The appropriate thing would be to just acknowledge me, not get nasty. He would at times get physically too close to me and stare me dead in the eye. That was inappropriate. I also noticed in the meantime that other people who used to be friendly to me started giving me dirty looks. They had something called "probation" and that's what he put me on. You had two weeks to improve or you got fired. And that's so subjective because he could easily put my work at the bottom of the pile and say I did no reports all week --which he did at one time.
I finally got switched, but although this may under normal circumstances be overkill on my part from an employer's perspective I felt the need to tell him off so I wrote him an email. He was an asshole, and HR was wrong to call me a criminal for what I did.
One of the things I wrote in the email was that I graduated from a top-notch school and came from a family of professionals, that he owed me an apology and that his verbal abuse only would set me up to perform worse. I also said I would get off work probation and that I was smart and had a good memory and therefore it would enable me to do this and turn it around. I also said I was respected by a lot of people. I ALSO PUT IN THE E-MAIL THAT I WAS VERY AMBITIOUS.
So, I sent this on a Friday and told the boss's boss who I will call Burt about it on Monday. On Tuesday, Burt walked to my desk and told me, "You're having a meeting with (I'll call her Casey) from Human Resources to discuss your dissatisfaction with Chuck." So, I get an email from Casey, "Please meet with me tomorrow (Wednesday) at 12. Thank you." So, Casey is coming to this branch of the company from her office in another part of the state, mind you, JUST TO TALK TO ME. So, Casey gets me on Wednesday and points to the phrases in my email that I highlighted. She speaks in a gruff voice when she states the statements I pointed out above, and says, "These statements are threatening." She also said that the statement about me having a good memory was a threat. I was flabbergasted and said, "What?" She was like, "We take harassment seriously." I explained what I meant by my statements. She even got nasty and said how my error percentage is grounds for termination. Even if that were so, his harassment of me was still not justified. She used my performance to justify Chuck's temper tantrums, which was wrong. She also made excuses and said, "That's not being mean." Well, he said it in a nasty way, I told her. And, she was like, "He probably just lost his patience with you." We talked a little more and then Burt came into the room and joined us. Casey, the phony that she was, said when turning to Burt, “Lola (my alias) says she didn’t mean to threaten Chuck.� She went on to give me an upbeat pep talk and said, “Not every boss is perfect. Your work will show now that you have a new editor.� Burt said the same thing, “your work will show.� They were totally acting nice to me – crocodiles, I call them.
I saw my new editor in Chuck’s office for more than two hours to discuss me. I realized at that point my days were numbered at the company. So, I went into Burt’s office and said I was going to quit. He told me not to. He had a smirk on his face and was making fun of me talking to me like I was 4 years old. Anyway, the next day comes and I call Casey to follow up on our meeting and she screams and yells at me on the phone, “You wrote him a threatening email.� She repeats this statement about 3 or 4 times. I said, “How am I threatening him?� She said, “He has to see you. You work together.� I said, “I wasn’t threatening him.� She ordered me to go into Burt’s office and said she was hanging up on me. Burt told me they met overnight and decided to can me.
Burt insisted on keeping the door open while he screamed at me with my new editor present. I did not deserve this no matter what I wrote in my email. He said I couldn’t get along with people and that my email was “threatening and vindictive.� I was stunned because the day before he was telling me not to resign. I was like, “It is not threatening.� He named a few people, Casey, Casey’s boss, him and Chuck, and said that they all found it threatening. He called me unprofessional, but he acted unprofessional as did that bitch Casey. He was like, when I was shocked because of our conversation, "Now, now wouldn't you think it's only fair? If Chuck did something..." That was insult to injury because he did do something and I got punished for standing up for myself, NOT TO MENTION IT WAS BURT WHO TOLD ME NOT TO QUIT THE JOB BECAUSE HE WOULDN'T FIRE ME FOR SENDING THAT EMAIL.
So, I said I would resign like I did before. I wrote a resignation letter and he said my termination would be recorded as a resignation, which I doubt it was because they backed out on a promise to let my "work show" before so what’s to say they wouldn’t again.
Mind you, I only told Chuck that I wasn't going to quit the job (hence you will have to deal with my presence for a "long long time") and would prove myself and "get off probation." I said that "I don't give up easily." I said I was a hard worker and that I had a good memory (meaning I was smart) and would turn it around. I also said that I was a very respected person, and that I knew a lot of important people who had high opinions of me. They didn't give me a chance to follow through with that very legit threat, but that's what I meant. It was not a "death threat." And if Burt and Casey really found it that threatening, don’t you think they would have fired me on the spot the day before? They didn’t even have to wait until Casey came in from another part of the state.
They wouldn’t have had a meeting to discuss that overnight. If they really thought I was guilty of a crime, they would have to fire me right away. At my law firm, a woman was caught stealing money and she was terminated on the spot. HR did not call her in and deliberate overnight about whether or not to terminate her. They took care of the paper work after the fact.
There was another guy who Chuck wasn’t happy with who walked out. And to quote other workers who observed him the day he walked out, “one day he just got really angry and walked out.� The one who walked out called Chuck's office "(his) second home." And Burt had the audacity to say that guy didn't leave because of Chuck. Chuck told me the guy got fired.
Even some of the other workers who were permitted to stay said they “had their moments� with Chuck. I heard that another guy in that training group was canned after I was gone.
Poor performance is NEVER a justification for a boss to scream and yell at an employee or get nasty and snippy and physically get too close to someone to stare them dead in the eye, and despite what this human resources woman told me, "he probably lost his patience with your incompetence, he's really a nice guy" that’s not an excuse either. He was okay with her because he didn’t dislike her. He didn’t think she was beneath him like he did me. And now, she’s a Nobody, and I’M AN ATTORNEY AND A SUCCESSFUL ONE AT THAT.
AND FURTHERMORE, IF THEY FOUND THAT EMAIL THREATENING, WHY DID IT TAKE 2 EXTRA DAYS TO TERMINATE ME? YOU WOULD THINK IF SOMEONE WAS MAKING DEATH THREATS THEY’D GET NOT ONLY CANNED ON THE SPOT BUT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO CALL THE COPS. THEY ALREADY FELT IT WAS ENOUGH OF A CONCERN TO WARRANT A TALKING TO. WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO MEET WITH ME? THE HR GIRL WAS NOT EVEN HEADQUARTERED AT THAT OFFICE. SHE WAS IN THE OFFICE A HALF HOUR AWAY. SHE WENT OUT OF HER WAY TO GO TO THE OTHER OFFICE WHERE I WAS TO MEET WITH ME. SHE COULD HAVE JUST TOLD THEM OVER THE PHONE, "THIS IS A THREATENING EMAIL. JUST TERMINATE HER AND SEND ME THE PAPERWORK AND I'LL TAKE CARE OF THE RECORDS" ON THE SAME DAY THAT BURT PULLED ME ASIDE TO SAY I WAS GOING TO MEET WITH HER.
I was friends with a guy at that company who I will call “Jack� who told me that Chuck pointed those statements out to him about the "memory" and about my being well-respected in the community and told him that that meant I was threatening to have people kill him. Jack said, “I don’t think that’s how she meant it.� Chuck is a very stubborn person who is set in his ways once he makes up his mind and he was adamant and then said, “Yes, she did. You didn’t read the e-mail.� So, Jack says, “Well, show it to me.� He simply says, “I deleted it.� My brother was like, “He just wanted Jack to dislike you because he had a vendetta against you the whole entire time. This guy doesn't like you. He wants other people to dislike you. He knew you didn’t intend to threaten his life.�
Burt walked me out saying, “We thought we had someone who could do the job.� Well, Burt, you did, but you also had someone who didn’t want to give me a chance to turn it around. He was trying to look angry but I could totally tell he was smirking.
I had an attorney look at my email after my termination, and she said there were no criminal threats contained, nothing that would, to quote her, "warrant an order of protection." I never made any references to violence or weapons or gangs or anything. The "people I knew" were not hitmen, they were doctors and lawyers. I just wanted Chuck to know I was not the useless trash he was treating me like.
AND FURTHERMORE, THE DUMB F***S EVEN OFFERED ME COBRA. People who are terminated for “gross misconduct� do not get COBRA. I would think threatening someone’s life would constitute “gross misconduct.� Obviously, they didn’t think that was what I did if they offered me COBRA. They at least feared that I might legally challenge them for not offering me COBRA and say that they misinterpreted my words. I didn’t take COBRA because I got another job right away with health insurance.
On that note, I had another issue with Casey during my employment there with regard to health insurance. I was there for four months and I didn’t get my coverage until my last month there, yet other new employees who started the same time as me and signed up on the same day as I did got their insurance right away. So during that time, I called Casey and asked her for my insurance and all she did was give me a website to go to that did not exist. She did this to me TWICE. I think they had me pegged when I look back on this.
Any way you look at that situation, this is an isolated incident. I never had a problem at a job before that or after that incident and I’ve worked at a few other places. I’m usually the boss’s pet. I was never a f*** up in school. I never abused drugs. I never got in trouble with the law or anything of the sort. I'm certainly not violent nor do I associate with anyone who is violent.
Though I don't have direct influence over HR, I have had to speak to my bosses who would then talk HR into firing people for incompetence or irresponsibility or tardiness, but NEVER during the time that I've supervised these people who were eventually fired have I been nasty to them like Chuck was to me. I never kept them in my office for hours on end to make them “mess up more� to paraphrase Chuck.
When I was getting admitted to the Bar, my application required that I put all past employment and education and discuss any termination of employment, any divorces, judgments against you, judgments you had against someone else, if you have ever been arrested and what the particulars were, etc. It also allows applicants extra sheets for explanation. I explained it in my application and subsequently went in for my admissions interview. When I pointed out the statements of “you will have to deal with my presence� and “good memory,� the guy was like, “What was it you said that they considered a death threat?� I told him that’s not what I meant. He said, “I know you didn’t mean it that way, but tell me what else you said and what they pointed out.� I told him what they pointed to. He was a nice man in his 50s and said, “When it isn’t working out for you at a job, whether you quit or they get rid of you, it’s not worth getting upset over because it’s not worth staying in a miserable situation where they don’t like you.� I told him, “If they really thought it was a death threat, they should have fired me right away, not waited and had meetings.� He said, “I agree.�
Those statements are not necessarily death threats. And if you want to view them as "threatening," I could have been “threatening� him with a lawsuit. In fact, I verbally threatened Casey with a lawsuit when she implied criminal intent on my part. Someone at that company told me that Casey was an incompetent moron and that they weren’t happy with her when they asked about benefits.
I'm sure that even if I never wrote that email my new editor would have messed with me because they were all friends. I don't think in retrospect that it would have made a difference if I "improved" so to speak. Then, the new editor would have messed with me, and they would have just said, "See, she can't work with anyone." It was a lose-lose situation. In retrospect, before Chuck became my boss, I now recall when I went in for my interview, before he got an office, he had a cubicle and was giving me dirty looks. I should have seen that as a red flag and taken another job that I was offered.
As fate would have it, a few weeks after my termination from that company, there was a news story about a guy who wrote a letter to a politician criticizing his policy, saying that it constituted racism. He made drawings of people getting lynched to illustrate his point, and they arrested him saying that what he said constituted a death threat, not against the politician he addressed it to but against people in general. The cops implied that he was trying to say that he himself was going to lynch people. They viewed it as terroristic, so they arrested him. The politician told the cops he didn't think the guy meant that he was going to lynch people. He explained himself, and they released him and apologized and said that while they found his letter offensive and nasty, it was a miscommunication and they told him to "forget about it." He said he wasn't going to forget about it and turned around and sued them.
In fact, when I was cleaning out my room one day months later, I found the company handbook. It spoke about electronic communications in one chapter and said you could be terminated for sending emails that are AND I QUOTE "obscene, unprofessional, etc." and ONE ADJECTIVE THAT STOOD OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB TO ME "THREATENING." I burst into LAUGHTER because I said to myself, they quoted the handbook then overnight after they told me "keep up the effort your work will show with your new editor" they talked to their lawyer and asked, "Can we get away with referring to these statements as threatening without risking a lawsuit by Lola?" And the lawyer must have said, "Well, the statements are kind of vague but to avoid a lawsuit your defense can be that you interpreted her words that way." And of course, Chuck got them going by saying, "She's having a hitman kill me."
Anyway, I was too incompetent to do data entry and a brief summary, but I somehow made it through law school and became an attorney. PFFFFTTT. Now, how stupid is that?! If I mess up at my job, I can lose my license. I’m obviously not incompetent. And furthermore, I was already drooling over law school when they were saying my statements were "threatening"...I wouldn't have thrown all that away to become a criminal - especially for someone who hates me and his friends. It was an entry level job, so they thought I was this useless little nobody with nothing else to go to and that they'd kicked me out on the street.
I'm very easy to get along with. Burt is an idiot for saying otherwise.
These people struck me as those kinds of people who were the cool kids when they were in high school - the mean, wise ass kids who would become popular by putting others down. NO OFFENSE AGAINST THOSE OF YOU OUT THERE WHO WERE COOL IN HIGH SCHOOL - I'VE GOT PLENTY OF FRIENDS AND RELATIVES WHO WERE THE COOL KIDS IN HIGH SCHOOL, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I DESCRIBE THEM. If they really felt I was making criminal "threats" whether or not they thought I was capable of following through, they wouldn't have jerked me around. They wouldn't want to try to humiliate or degrade me because they would have been afraid of me. They'd have fired me right away. They just were having fun scaring this tiny little nerd in their VERY SMALL POND. I'm a woman with glasses who's very soft spoken. But, I will become powerful someday, and I do plan on addressing this situation publicly when I've attained that power.
I’ve used this experience as inspiration on what kind of boss I don’t want to be. People who work under me are very happy with me. The woman who answers the phones says I’m one of her favorite people to buzz. I will NEVER be nasty to a subordinate even if I end up having to fire them for incompetence.
I ONLY THREATENED TO DO A 180 AND PROVE THAT GUY WRONG.
Being that I’m now a respected attorney at my law firm, it’s safe to say that I followed through with the so-called “threats� I made to Chuck in that e-mail. They didn’t let me follow through there, but I managed to make those threats a reality elsewhere and my long term goal is to save my money and later on invest in the company that took them over until I hold a significant amount of their stock. So, I’m taking the long way there, but I’m going to do it with hard work. When I say "threats," I'm saying it in a sarcastic way, saying I succeeded like I said I would in that e-mail. I've stuck to my story and never changed it.
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